Controversy
I can't understand human curiosity
Controversy
Was it good for you, was I what you wanted me to be?
Controversy
With Prince still heavy on my heart and what I'm about to get into here, this particular excerpt from his song "Controversy" leapt to mind. Let's see why.
It's been a while since I've done one of these posts, but I think it's about time. There have been a few things going on in my little bitty corner of the internet I'd like to discuss. Before I get started, I want to take a moment to again thank KG of KG's Movie Rants for blessing my blog with a guest post and for allowing me to do the same on his blog a little over a week ago. His post is titled Whitewashing in Hollywood: The Black and White of it All. He did a very thorough job explaining his point. If you haven't read it, please click the link and give it a look.
What happened on his blog is the first thing I'd like to talk about.
My post on KG's blog, Why We Need Ghostbusters to be a Hit, gives some reasons I think the fate of the upcoming remake is possibly more consequential than the other blockbusters that will hit cinemas this summer. I'd love for you to read that, too. In case you don't, the gist of it is I think the success of Ghostbusters will continue to move us forward as studios will become increasingly willing to back films led by female heroes. It's failure could see those same studios become hesitant about such movies. I say that even though I'm generally against the idea of remaking every successful property under the sun. However, it is here and features four females as our heroic quartet so let's roll with it and see what happens. My reasoning there is that I find it highly important for little girls to see women as the true heroes and not just the sidekicks to men.
KG's readers, or at least those who commented, weren't too keen on the idea. Their basic point was why bother just gender swapping an established property? Why not create something original starring females? One of his readers, also one of mine (still, I hope), Rodney of Fernby Films, presented this argument in a well thought out comment to which I responded. It's a position I fully understand. To be clear, I ALWAYS prefer for us as viewers to be given new and original films rather than retreads, regardless of the gender of its stars. However, in my opinion, Hollywood tends view things in generalities. If this film flops, rather than putting that on the quality of this individual project, I can see the bigwigs saying "See, big budget films led by women don't work" and causing to wait a pretty long time for a new one. I hope that wouldn't happen, but it could. Therefore, it would be better if Ghostbusters were successful and we totally avoided that possibility. Rodney and I moved on with no hard feelings whether or not we changed the other person's mind.
Then there was another reader. This person doesn't have a blog, so I'll not bother naming him. His basic premise was similar to Rodney's, make an original movie instead, but it seems to have come from a place I just don't quite understand. Basically, he thinks that remaking Ghostbusters with women in the principle roles is "crapping on the original." What was most off putting is that he positions men as victims in all this, as if there wasn't already an entire century where males made up probably 99% of the leading roles in what could be deemed action flicks. Never mind that he and anyone else can watch the original anytime they want. Never mind that more people will have probably watched that movie this year than in any movie since the year it came out simply because there is a remake. Never mind that much of the original cast and creators of that film are involved in this one.
We got into a lengthy back and forth over the matter, with the both of our tones increasing in hostility. My last comment was for us to just agree to disagree and move on. I wasn't changing his mind and he wasn't changing mine. I thought it best to leave well enough alone before my words became as angry as his. His response?
"I weep for the future i hope they do crap on your fan favorite female and make them a guy! for guys!"
 |
| Okay, fine. Sigh. |
By the way, in case you weren't sure, don't let any of this reflect poorly on KG. I won't hold him responsible for what another (presumably) adult says as a commentator on something I wrote. He has a wonderful blog that I will continue to support.
Speaking of KG, a couple days ago, there was a comment left on his guest post here from Rowango, a person who hadn't been here before. As I always do in such cases, I responded and went to check out their blog, Geek Ink. Much to my surprise, the latest post was a direct response to my post on KG's site titled "Do We Really Need Ghostbusters to be a Hit?" After my experience with 'weep for the future' guy, I was apprehensive about clicking on to the article, but I did. He has mixed feelings about what I wrote. His concern is that it just doesn't appear to be a good film. It's a well written, well thought out post that I encourage you to read.
The topic rages on, elsewhere on the net. There are articles all over the place on it. One I found that also speaks to my post, though I doubt this person was even aware of what I wrote, is on a site called audienceseverywhere. It's called "What If the Ghostbusters Reboot is Bad?" It's an excellent read on the matter written by Sean K. Cureton. I highly encourage giving it a look.
Moving on...
I managed to get something accomplished I've been working on for quite some time. My Movie Review Index is finally complete. Now, all of my movie reviews can be accessed from one page. It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 800 reviews. You can either click the link in this paragraph or the tab at the top of the page.
I have another small piece of news. Actually, this happened a few weeks back. I've just been too lazy to announce it. Well, sort of. It's a little bit of payback for my new friends. Okay, I'm babbling now, but there is a point. I was notified last month that I was accepted into The Large Association of Movie Blogs and was officially LAMB #1793. Notice the snazzy little button at the top of the sidebar. It's a wonderful group and I appreciate them letting me be a part of it. I remember when I first applied and being told that it would be about six months before I heard whether or not I was approved. About five months passed and I began checking my email every day to see if anything came. Eventually I stopped checking. You would have, too. Trust me. How do I know? It's simple, really. I applied in the summer of 2014. Ha! I think it's okay that I'm just getting around to announcing it on my site after a month. Take that LAMB!
Look at that. Just barely in the door and I'm already the asshole. Oh, well.
I'm going to write this carefully...
ReplyDeleteI probably won't see this. There are several reasons for it.
1) I almost never see things in theaters anyway (my current total for films released in 2016 is 1).
2) I think it looks bad.
Reason number 2 needs some explanation, because I agree with the basic premise of the post. I'm a father of daughters and my kids need to have movies that portray women as heroes and not merely sidekicks. My kids need to have media portrayals of women who aren't sex objects and who can have story arcs that don't involve falling in love, getting married, or being raped. Hell, the world needs that. This being a hit would go a long way toward that.
I just don't think it looks good. I'd love for it to be good, but if it sucks, all the grand intentions it might have go for nothing. Worse, if it fails, it's likely that the failure will be blamed on the cast and not the fact that the movie itself would've failed with a male cast.
I hope it's good. I hope it works. But I think it looks really bad. I'm in the same boat as Rowango. In short, I agree with the need for this to work; I just don't think it will.
I am more than okay with you not wanting to see it because it looks bad. No sense wasting your hard earned money on something you think is going to be terrible. I just have an issue with someone rejecting it without seeing it solely on the basis of it having females as leads. So, I fully understand your concerns. In fact, I share them.
DeleteWhen I first heard about the Ghostbusters remake, I was probably down on the idea, simply because I tend to look at reboots as one of two things: 1) an attempt to improve upon the original [which in this case is blasphemy] or 2) A complete lack of original storytelling [which is just annoying]
ReplyDeleteAs a semi-functional adult, and a movie fan, I need to understand that there is nothing that can be done about the deluge of reboots/reimaginings. Like anything else in this world, if I don't like it, I can cast my vote by not seeing it, not spending a dime on it. No reason to give a damn either way. And even if I did see it (which I totally will, by the way) and it wasn't good? Holy shit...who the f--k cares? It's a movie. When did this shit become sacred?
Now, to your point. I think. You and I have daughters, so we're looking at this from what may be a different perspective than your detractors. I think it's entirely reasonable that more films need to feature females in leading roles (of varying types, no less) and would hope that Ghostbusters raking it in would encourage that. But, honestly, I think the only message that would be sold to the execs is 'continue the reboot trend', with maybe a pinch of 'greenlight female-led films'. It might be hard to separate the two. It's all in how you want to frame it. The success or failure of this particular film can be construed to fit either argument.
Oh, and in addition to girls needing to see female heroes on the big screen, so do boys, too. Maybe if they grew up thinking/knowing women could actually save the day, kick ass, lead the team and all that shit, they wouldn't grow up to be such annoying douchebags. Go watch a woman have a kid. Trust me, dude. She's a f--king badass.
I will say there is one other thing that leaps to mind when thinking of remakes. They don't necessarily try to improve on the original as much as just cash in on the name recognition.
DeleteNo doubt, having daughters colors my opinion. So does growing up with a single mom.
That's so sad, but true, that if GB is a success, it will more likely just continue the trend of Hollywood remaking anything they can get their hands on with a few of those being gender swaps, as well. We already have a female reboot of Ocean's Eleven on the way. Guess I'm hoping against hope that it will encourage more original films led by females.
Great, great point about boys needing to see women in such roles, too. It's something I've said before, but totally failed to bring up in connection with this. Thanks for backing me up.
I think you make a good point of wanting this to succeed so that studios get behind more female led action movies. The Hunger Games put a lot of studios in that position. I just worry, because this movie looks SO terrible, if it succeeds is that going to be the standard? Are they only going to green light movies with cliched females and crappy writing? Because after reading the outline of this film that's on the web, it sounds dreadfully bad and I see it hurting more than helping.
ReplyDeleteI'd rather have an original female led story. I don't need to see every male centered movie remade with women, because it gives off the feeling of "you only get this because a man got it first."
I'm with you and Mario though on boys needing female heroes too. I have that discussion with my son frequently, how it's cool to be Rey or Black Widow or Scarlet Witch and boys can want action figures with them too.
Thank you. And yeah, I'm worried, too, because it doesn't look like a world beater. That's for sure. And I would definitely prefer original stories. So happy to hear you have talks like that with your son.
DeleteLOL Dude I'm not going anywhere just yet! HA HA HA
ReplyDeleteIf this whole Ghostbusters debacle has proven one thing, it's that a vast majority of film "fans" and "critics" aren't above sounding like a three-year-old having a tantrum when it suits them, ha ha!
Fortunately, there's still plenty of folks able to maintain a mature and sensible discussion on this matter without histrionics: of all the stuff I've read over the last few months or so, the signifigant majority appears to be less to do with the "female cast" faux-misogyny stuff, and more to do with the film just looking bad overall. "Cheap, lazy filmmaking" is a phrase bandied about a lot, which is hard to find solidity in considering we've had what, two or three minutes of trailer footage released?
Part of the issue is that Sony haven't marketed this project well at all. At All. On the one hand, they're hoping to tap into the nostalgia of the original films, by somehow recreating a similar vibe and feel that Ackroyd, Murray and Ramis had in spades, and it wouldn't be a secret to suggest that that tone is missing from the trailers of the modern version. Therefore, pissing off the older fans who're expecting to see the studio at least try and give them a fresh take on the franchise, albeit with similar comedic style.
On the other hand, who is the audience aside from older fans who actually wanted to see this? What's the demographic for this film if it *isn't* the fans of the original movies? I'm pretty sure teenagers these days wouldn't have ever heard of Ghostbusters had Sony not remade it, so trying to shove nostalgia down the throats of people for whom the franchise means so little is difficult to appraise in its creative mandate.
Then there's the tone-deaf gender politics of the whole thing: without embarking on the ol' misogyny discussion again, the decision to not only remake a classic film (whether you like the original film or not, it's rightly a classic of 80's cinema for a number of reasons) but to force a sexual revolution upon audiences is one that feels like a hamfisted way of satisfying the peons craving more diversity in film. The trouble is that diversity isn't something that can be forced on people and succeed, it needs to be an organic, generational change that feels natural, rather than thrown at people with an expectation. We can mandate more women in film, mandate more female directors, producers and technical leaders, we can mandate quotas and all manner of falsified prerequisites for women getting work within the industry, but without it being an organic process there's always going to be some backlash - not because women aren't good at what they do, but because mandated change always feels like it has an agenda, and that's where Sony's problem has come from. Rightly or wrongly, (some/many) people feel there's an agenda at play here, and they don't like it.
In the end, we can argue about gender politics and remake-fatigue until the cows come home. The proof will be in the box-office take, not so much that opening weekend but the second one, where the dropoff will (most likely) be significant, as the curious will not revisit it, the haters will never see it, and the critical evaluation of professional scribes will marry up with word-of-mouth by casual viewers.
My gut says it'll make plenty on opening weekend: a lot of folks will go see this simply for the driving-past-a-car-crash effect. My gut says the second weekend and beyond will be a lot rougher on Ghostbusters than the studio expects. It's gonna get a hammering.
First, thank you for being one of those able to maintain their maturity during a disagreement. I really appreciate that.
DeleteInteresting point about how the film is marketed. I agree that it's rather murky who they're targeting for an audience. I also agree they're leaning heavily on the nostalgia factor. I just saw an episode of Jimmy Kimmell that included both the new cast and that of the original. My question is how do you market this film and not go that route? The title alone carries lots of weight and seems impossible to get around. I think that's thanks largely to something else we disagree on. I think lots of teenagers (and early 20somethings) HAVE heard of, seen the original. It's become one of those movies that parents grew up watching and decided to share with their kids. It's also been showing up all over the place on TV for two decades, so there's a good chance they bumped into it on their own. This is far different from remaking something like Evil Dead or Point Break. Those originals were certainly popular in their own right, but didn't cast a shadow over the whole of American pop culture the way Ghostbusters did. Like you said, it's a classic.
Excellent point about forced changed meeting up with resistance. No argument from me, there. I also agree that the second weekend will be the one that's most telling. Will their be a normal drop-off, or will it be a precipitous fall? I hope it doesn't get a hammering, but yeah, we will soon find out.
I just want the film to be good on its own merit. I know it's sort of a remake and a new spin on the story but I just want it to be good. I might go see it. I love the first film and I like the second one. I'm willing to give it a chance. I don't know why fanboys are acting like whiny little bitches.
ReplyDeleteThat's the best thing any of us can hope for, really. Fanboys are being overprotective of their beloved classic. That's what fanboys do. I get it.
DeleteFirst off let me say, CONGRATULATIONS. Just visited The LAMB site and it seems like a huge community and a great opportunity to spread the reach of your voice. You definitely deserve this!
ReplyDeleteOn the Ghostbusters issue, I saw that things between you and one of my readers got a bit heated but I was slacking on checking comments because life was getting in the way of blogging and didn't realise how disrespectful his comments became. I think everyone has the right to an opinion - especially if it opposes mine because I think you learn more in debate than in agreement. Unfortunately the internet often has brash, inconsiderate people who don't believe in debate but rather chose to think that being loud, offensive and crude is the best way to defend their points. So even though I support the right for people to share comments on my blog, I have to apologise for the disrespectful manner in which that particular reader chose to share their views.
It's a controversial issue but one I think many people are only treating superficially. This isn't about remakes or a movie being good or not - this is about corrections of injustices. Women have gotten the raw end of the deal in films for generations. I would love to see new, original female characters leading blockbusters but that's not a realistic starting point. We need to have these gender-swaps that rely on big names to kick off the revolution. And like you said, a remake takes nothing away from the original. The original Ghostbusters will endure whether this film flops or not but women being equally represented in film will suffer if this film flops.
Again, congratulations on your acceptance in to LAMB and I hope that more people realise that sometimes personal preference has to be set aside in order to deal with larger issues.
Thanks!
DeleteI fully understand life getting in the way. It happens to all of us, at some point. No worries. Thank you for the apology, but again, I don't hold you at all responsible. That person took it upon themselves to behave in that manner. It's not the first internet scrape I've had with similarly hostile people. I hope it is, but it may not be the last. It wasn't your fault. These things sometimes happen.
That's what I've been saying.
Congrats on joining the LAMB!
ReplyDeleteI'm not excited about seeing this, since I'm not a huge fan of the first Ghostbusters, but I think you made a solid point that if this movie is a hit it could have positive repercussions in the industry.
It always surprises me how heated internet discussions can get, not just over the infamous topics of religion and politics but... well... everything.
I can't imagine you being as asshole. I've always found the tone of your comments and opinion pieces to be thoughtful and balanced, and you thoroughly support your points, something that's practically a lost art in the age of the internet. There's nothing wrong with being passionate about your convictions, or becoming annoyed at the behavior of some folks out there, as long as you basically keep it on that level, y'know?
Honestly, I think most people have forgotten how to discuss and debate issues constructively. Socrates is rolling over in his grave.
Thanks!
DeleteI try to be fair and objective and to support my points, so I appreciate that you have picked up on that. I will continue in that vein because that's who I am. So no worries about me keeping it "on that level." I shouldn't be surprised when someone else doesn't. I mean, look at our presidential election.
Poor Socractes.
The presidential election... don't get me started on that shit show. :-)
DeleteI didn't mean to imply that there were any worries about your keeping it "on that level." I was just highlighting the fact that there's nothing wrong with passionate debate and all that.
Shit show is right.
DeleteHi Dell, interesting how most people already think the movie's gonna be bad. I'm still curious enough to see it because I'm a fan of some of the cast and they are genuinely funny, esp Kate McKinnon! Now, it might end up being a bad movie, but still I think it's cool to see a gender-twist on an old fave. It's really sad that people are up in arms about the casting, it just shows how we may not be that far ahead in regards to sexism (and racism too but that's a whole other topic). There's a new all-female Ocean's Eleven movie in the works too, I wonder what controversy that one will generate, heh.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly enough, I think how good or bad Ghostbusters is will inform how people react to the new Ocean's as it gets closer to an actual release date. Fingers crossed, hoping for the best.
DeleteFantastic news. Well done on the new acceptance logo. I'm sorry to hear you got abuse on the viewpoint. You must have been so happy with the success of Bridesmaids.
ReplyDeleteThanks. I'm sorry it went that way, as well. To be honest, I wasn't thinking about this same thing back when Bridesmaids came out, though I am happy it was a hit.
Delete